Dr. Eric Barreto  
I'd like to welcome Dr. Shanell T. Smith. She's a doctoral expert and an institutional consultant. She is a good friend and colleague in this world, a brilliant teacher, scholar, and mentor to a lot of folks. You can find more about her at ShanellTSmithConsulting.com, but welcome, Shanell, it's really good to see you. I think there's a lot for the broader church to learn about what's happening in your work. I'm really excited for people to hear about your story.

Dr. Shanell T. Smith  
I've been mentoring doctoral students for over 10 years. I absolutely love mentoring. I've always had this teacher in me. And I was blessed to be able to work with institutions like the Forum for Theological Exploration (FTE) and the Louisville Institute. So even as a full time professor at Harvard Seminary, although we didn't have like a PhD program in ethics, or religion, or Bible, I always had FTE where I was plugged into some type of doctoral mentoring throughout my entire tenure at Harvard seminary. It is a calling.

Dr. Eric Barreto  
Why should folks in the church be concerned about the success of doctoral students, especially minoritized doctoral students? Here we're talking about doctoral students who might be doing all kinds of different doctoral work. If I'm somebody sitting in the pew, tell me why should we be concerned about what doctoral students are going through?

Dr. Shanell T. Smith 
My first response would be that the church is now beyond the Pew. There are a lot of people who, especially now due to COVID, attend church online. It's kind of like the church is everywhere. We are the body. And so, irrespective of discipline, it will eventually affect the church, because the church is made up of flesh and blood members who will go to these healthcare facilities and who write the books on your shelf. And so when they create their scholarship, or when they write the curricula, or when they change the policies, it will always affect the people, which is the church.

So no matter what a doctoral student’s discipline is, the church will always be affected. And I'm hoping this is what I trained my clients to do, is that their work should do something and that they make sure that their research is accessible. 

Dr. Eric Barreto  
Are there any other obstacles you might highlight for us that you're finding doctoral students are facing in your work?

Dr. Shanell T. Smith  
These need to come to light, so that those within the church and their families and friends know how to support them. A lot of doctoral students and even faculty, due to COVID, are trying to reimagine and re-envision their workspace. They wonder, "how can I now work on my doctoral studies when I can't get to campus, I no longer have the community that I want, I'm studying at home where I'm looking at the laundry, I'm looking at the snacks, the remote is there.” But then also they're struggling with being their own best self-advocate. And that goes hand in hand with mentoring, where they don't want to bother their advisor or mentor. They're struggling with procrastination, a lack of motivation, and bandwidth. They're struggling with their "so what" because in the grand scheme of things, a doctorate is like “nil” right now. You know, considering all that we're going through, and so I get a lot of, “I don't even know why I'm doing this anymore.” Because they're dealing with death, they're dealing with uncertainty, everything else that we all are dealing with, on top of doing a doctorate.

Dr. Eric Barreto  
Life keeps going. And whether it's family struggles, or communal struggles, or larger national struggles, we're right in the midst of all that. How do you help people get through some of that stuff?

Dr. Shanell T. Smith  
The very first thing I do is to make sure that they focus on themselves. So I start with an audit of their schedule. Where do you fit in? I don't want to know when you do your 9 to 5? I don't care about the hours you are at the church. Those are important, but first, I want to know where do you fit in? When are you doing your self-care? When are you having dinner with your significant other or your family? Maintain those lines of communication and make sure that they're open. 

So even after we create a Strategic Action Plan or their schedule, I'm like, okay, go show this to your partner. It's not so much about asking for permission, but about saying, “I see you. I need you, you are supporting me. Let's do this together because we're in this together.” 

In terms of imposter syndrome, it's a lot of just reminding them that everything that they needed to get into a program, they already have to graduate. And to constantly keep reminding themselves of why they are doing this, and to also know that when they need help to ask for it! Because if they don't, they're going to struggle. But unfortunately, there is a culture among people of color, I have to say, where there is not a culture of self-investment, whether or not it is paid for, it doesn't matter. You don't want to ask for help, because there's a lot of performing that you have it all together. 

Dr. Eric Barreto  
I'm wondering if folks are hearing this conversation, and they're hearing echoes of their own lives, even if they're not doctoral students, or in the academy. That they relate to not feeling like we're good enough at something, the fear of looking like we don't know what we're doing. The wondering, the trying to remember, why am I doing this in the first place? What is this for? What is my vocation? What is my call? And I think a lot of us are wondering, what does it mean to be productive? I don't love the term productivity. Like, is it about motivation? Is it about vocation? Getting things done? Calling? But what is it that, if I'm working at home? How do I know that I'm being the person God has called me to be? 

Dr. Shanell T. Smith  
That's the question that's not being asked, right? It's not about “Am I doing or being all that God has called me to be?” It’s the society's understanding and definition of success, that unfortunately, we measure ourselves by. So it's not so much being in tune or discerning what God wants you to do. But even if it is, are you still measuring yourself by how exhausted you are? How much did you get done? Did you finish your sermon in an hour instead of two? There's always this mentality of productivity. And that's what needs to change. I think that if we gave ourselves a modicum of grace, and remember that grace is a thing, even for ourselves, we would be so much better off. It's not so much about productivity, but that are we happy with what we were able to do in that day. Our measure of success needs to be “How do we feel at the end of the day?” Whether we are able to refuel ourselves, take care of ourselves and our loved ones in the midst of doing that, or actually first, then getting your stuff done. That’s how I measure my success. That's how I do it, that I take care of myself and my family, and that I get some work done.

Watch the full video interview on our video resources page.