A Church Anew Book Series: Interview With Matthew Ian Fleming, Author of “The End is the Beginning”
Photo by Stefan Stefancik on Unsplash
Church Anew is delighted to continue a series that celebrates the books and contributions of leaders in our community. While we can’t share every book or article or milestone, feel free to nominate someone or some piece that you know by emailing support@churchanew.org. Pastor Eric Shafer has led a storied career across the church and is interviewing authors in this recurring feature. This week, we are happy to present Eric’s interview with Matthew Ian Fleming about his new book, “The End is the Beginning.”
Please share a short summary of the book.
“The End is the Beginning” is an introduction to the book of Revelation, the last and, perhaps, the scariest book of the Bible and probably the most confusing. In my book I try to give people a more hopeful way of reading this strange book and provide them with some tools to read it. If you can read this odd book of the Bible, you can probably read anything. I use memoir and story and history as examples, and we get into the weeds on occasion. I hope the reader will get a picture of the arc of this story, the narrative that's in this odd book at the end of scripture.
Why did you write this? Why take the time to write a book about the Book of Revelation?
The first is that I stumbled into a love for Revelation. A group of people at our congregation asked me to teach a Bible study, and I wanted to learn alongside of them while I was teaching. I grew up in a more fundamentalist world, and so I had a very specific way of reading Revelation that I knew didn't fit me anymore. I wanted to learn a different way of reading this book and share it with this Bible study. To my surprise the attendance quickly doubled, because people were so curious about this book. They'd been told things about it that they weren't sure were true. I watched the light bulbs go off for people as they started to think about scripture in a new way. And the second is that I think it's really essential right now that we look at the misinterpretations of this book and take them seriously. They can lead people down some really harmful places. I want to give people a sense of this book that will help them sort out some of that bad information that's out there.
“Bad information” - Can you share one misinterpretation that sticks out to you?
I think one common misinterpretation is that Revelation is a blueprint for the end of the world, that it is a narrative about how the end of the world will unfold. This misinterpretation can have hidden under it that you can somehow discern when the end times will be based on what happens in the world today. Revelation isn't a blueprint for the end of times. In fact, the word “revelation” is the first word in the scriptural text. And in Greek, it's apocalypsis, which apocalypse sounds like the end of the world. That's how we know it in contemporary language. But really, it means a revealing, the revelation of Jesus. So ultimately, this book shows us who Jesus was in ancient times against the Roman Empire and might invite us into something about what the world is now.
Why should people read Revelation (and your book about Revelation) in 2025?
I have seen countless memes on social media using Revelation to proclaim a kind of politics that has no business in scriptural witness and is not what Revelation is trying to show. And some really abuse the text to promote Christian nationalism and an extremely bigoted and hateful rhetoric toward all sorts of different people. I think it's really important that Christians have something to say about this book. If you have somebody who's an aunt or an uncle who's wandered down the rabbit hole of QAnon or has wandered into the far-right radio or internet, they've probably bumped into this book of scripture. And I think “The End is the Beginning” will give you a way to articulate a different vision and a different narrative.
You do use family members, family memories, current events to help interpret the Book of Revelation. Please share one of those that stick out for you.
There's one story about my daughter who was about three years old at that time. One morning we pulled up to the preschool parking lot. I immediately put the car in park and I pulled out my cell phone and started to look at email and my endless to-do list. From the back seat, my daughter said, “Daddy.” I basically ignored it. I just kept on going to my work. I mumbled something. Then she said a second time, “Daddy.” And I said, oh, honey, we'll leave in just a minute. Just give me one minute. I kept looking down. Then she said insistently and more loudly, “DADDY.” And at this point, I kind of looked up annoyed, about to chastise my four-year-old. As I look up I now see a deer looking me right in the eyeballs. And she said, “Daddy – deer”. A deer was standing right there. The unveiling of Revelation like that - something that's in plain sight right in front of us. And yet we need language to really draw us into it.
What would you like the reader to take away from the book?
Revelation is a book full of promises. It is a book about hope but not hope that's saccharine or sweet. Rather it is a book about enduring, persistent, and gritty hope. And I think it's exactly the kind of hope we need for times like this. It's a kind of hope that expects God to be on the side of those who are on the margins. It expects God to fight against the forces of empire that will oppress. And it draws us into the narrative. It draws us in as people of faith and expects something from us. Revelation has teeth. It'll get into you. And I hope that people might walk away with this with a newfound sense that the scripture might have something to say for them and that they might be called into a life of faith in their lives.
Rev. Eric Shafer
The Rev. Eric C. Shafer is a regular contributor to Church Anew and serves as “Pastor in Residence” for Global Refuge - www.globalrefuge.org - which is now in its 85th year serving immigrants and refugees. He has served ELCA congregations in Pennsylvania and California and was the ELCA’s Communication Director, a synod bishop’s assistant, and an interfaith communication executive. He and his wife, Kris, live at Pilgrim Place in Claremont, California.