A Church Anew Book Series: Interview with Rev. Dr. Yolanda Denson-Byers, Author of “See Me, Believe Me”
Photo by Priscilla Du Preez on Unsplash
Church Anew is delighted to continue a series that celebrates the books and contributions of leaders in our community. While we can’t share every book or article or milestone, feel free to nominate someone or some piece that you know by emailing support@churchanew.org. Pastor Eric Shafer has led a storied career across the church and is interviewing authors in this recurring feature. This week, we are happy to present Eric’s interview with Rev. Dr. Yolanda Denson-Byers about her new book, See Me, Believe Me.
Rev. Eric Shafer: Please share a brief summary of your book
Rev. Dr. Denson-Byers: This book is partially a review of my pastoral ministry, in predominantly white churches, over the last twenty years (I served predominantly Black churches the ten years prior). It is full of stories of challenge, pain, and triumph.
It is also something of a guide for white church folks who have black leaders in their congregation. It is meant to help navigate avoidable instances of personal, or institutional racism, and open up vulnerable and honest dialogue about how to make churches more actively anti-racist and welcoming to leaders and neighbors of color.
Finally, it is meant to encourage people to respond to reports of racism, from leaders of color, not with words of surprise or negation, but with words of comfort, affirmation, and life - “Beloved, I see you; I believe you.”
Why did you write this book?
This book was written to help European-Americans (read white folks) be good allies to leaders of color in their churches. As a female, black, and queer pastor in the ELCA, my life experience tells me that when leaders of color serve predominantly white denominations, there are some things that I cannot take for granted that my church council, personnel team, or other leaders already know. I wrote this book as a guide for white leaders with the hope that it would improve institutional and personal racism in the church.
Subsequently, I have now learned that this book is also helpful to anyone who has a person of color in their life for whom they care. There are over 75 action items in the book that can be helpful to any cross-cultural relationship one may have.
This book was also written as a love letter to the leaders of color who have demonstrated such faithful and courageous leadership, often in hostile and treacherous work environments.
I have heard from pastors of color, across the country, that they have been inviting their mutual ministry teams, pastoral care teams, church councils, personnel teams, and others to read this book with them. Thereafter, they have engaged in discussion regarding their shared ministry environment, with the hope to mitigate ignorance, improve institutional and personal racism, and improve the professional experience of the leader of color.
It also serves as validation of the life experiences of leaders of color. I have heard more than one person say, "Oh thank God; I'm not crazy!"
Who should read this book?
Any person who desires to be an actively anti-racist ally in their congregation, or elsewhere, should read this book. While doing so, I encourage readers to adopt a posture of being open minded and tender hearted.
Some of the stories in this book are hard to read, nevertheless they are true. When, and if, my white readers experience reactivity to the stories, I challenge them to ask themselves, “What about this story is triggering my anxiety and what am I willing to do to make things better for my siblings of color?”
From the depth of my heart, I beg readers not to say, “I can’t believe it! This can’t be true! That would never happen in my church,” because that is hurtful and negates the very real and painful experiences of persons of color.
Instead, “I see you; I believe you,” is a more faithful and compassionate response to the violence of racism perpetuated in our churches. Anyone who believes that the church can - and should do better - should prayerfully read and execute some of the many ideas in my book.
Please say more about your chapter Respect Boundaries –
This chapter is meant to establish some appropriate boundaries between white parishioners and their leader of color, and their families. It is my experience that even white people of goodwill transgress my boundaries out of an inappropriate sense of entitlement or curiosity.
By purposely naming some of the ways that this has occurred in my own life, I hope to encourage white congregants to think before they speak, or act, in ways that are violent to their siblings of color.
One such example is touching the hair of an African or African-American pastor, without permission. Just as one would not plunge their hands into the hair of a white person, one does not have permission to do that to us either!
As a white person I also found your chapter Please See Color helpful
I have been told one too many times, “I do not see skin color.” Unless one is legally blind, this statement is patently false. Said more plainly, it is a lie.
Everyone, who can see, is aware of the color of a person’s skin. In most contexts around the world, darker skin leads to an increase in experiences of racism. When white people of goodwill tell me that they do not see skin color, what I actually hear is, “I don’t want to talk about, or acknowledge, your experiences of racism.”
I absolutely understand that this is not what most people mean when they say this. I believe it is meant to convey an anti-racist mentality. It is also meant to underscore their desire not to judge a person by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
What I need my white allies to know, is that is not how a person of color receives your statement. So, please stop saying it! Instead, we want you to see, value, appreciate, and celebrate the beautiful diversity of our skin colors and to recognize your own.
What would you like the reader to take away from your book?
The reader should take away a deep appreciation for leaders of color who choose to serve the church, or elsewhere, as leaders in predominantly white environments.
I want people to understand the very real cost to leaders of color and their families. I want to inspire greater dialogue, and a commitment to doing the hard work of building actively anti-racist communities of faith. I want to see allies raised up who have the backs of their leaders of color, in real and tangible ways. I want people to offer “thoughts and prayers” through sacrifice, service, and direct and immediate action.
Finally, it is my hope that my book helps white folks of good will to truly appreciate the sacrifices leaders of color, and their families, make to stay, and serve, in predominantly white contexts, with grace.
Rev. Eric Shafer
The Rev. Eric C. Shafer is a regular contributor to Church Anew and serves as “Pastor in Residence” for Global Refuge - www.globalrefuge.org - which is now in its 85th year serving immigrants and refugees. He has served ELCA congregations in Pennsylvania and California and was the ELCA’s Communication Director, a synod bishop’s assistant, and an interfaith communication executive. He and his wife, Kris, live at Pilgrim Place in Claremont, California.
